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Dec 27, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39	#81
Metanoia Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2006	16 Marks/13 Expertise will still leave enough for 3(+1) Wilderness Survival, which is more than enough for Winnowing (62 second duration @ 4 Wilderness Survival). Also, pets only 'blackout' the Ranger the first time they die nowadays.

Dec 27, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59	#82
ryanryanryan0310 Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2006 Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS]	1) Expertise is the best, needs to be nerf.. 2) Strength is the worst on most people's list, needs to be upgraded K A-net you hear me....

Old

Dec 27, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

#83

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

As I said I do NOT see the use for MY ranger to use expertise as I mostly use skills which costs 5 energy.

8 (9?) Expertise would make those skills cost 3.

13 would make them cost 2, which is about how much you recover between shots.

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Old

Dec 27, 2006, 02:57 AM // 02:57

#84

Chicken Ftw

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

Like I would ever join a pve group full of "pro" pvpers . I did that once in tombs and it was the WROST group I EVER played with. They could'nt even clear the first lvl.

Obviously not pros. <_<

Quote:

I never said that expertise was BAD for everyone. Just that I did not see the use for it on MY ranger and that he does not use it. I could'nt care less if you think thats a bad idea or not.

Yet you keep replying.

Quote:

As for B/P in tombs the GOOD groups take Winnowing which need Wilderness Survival, and a good lvl in that as well. So how you supposed to get that when you have put all your points in to Expertise and Marksmanship is intresting.

4 BM on one Ranger, possibly two if you think one will not suffice. WOW!

Quote:

Aslo if you have 0 points in Beast Mastery your skills are disabled for 10 seconds every time your pet dies. Which annoying to say the least.

Happens once. Ohesnoes.

Quote:

Aslo it will only rez at 10% of max health.

Dies again, another minion from it. Wait, how's this bad again?

Quote:

Which is not good if your in need of something to protect you from a Grasp of Insanity or other nasties there.

If the Grasps have made it past the pets/minions, A) Something's gone wrong, and B) Whirling Defense/Throw Dirt ftw. Hey, look what attribute they're under. <_<

Done replying to you here. Going off-topic.

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Old

Dec 27, 2006, 04:54 AM // 04:54

#85

Spike

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Location: In front of my PC

Guild: Kai

Profession: E/Mo

Exclamation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Obviously not pros.

Well like all pvpers they seem to THINK they where "leet".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Yet you keep replying.

As do you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

4 BM on one Ranger, possibly two if you think one will not suffice. WOW!

You REALLY do have a problem with reading don't you. Since when does BM have anything to do with a Wilderness survival skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Happens once. Ohesnoes.

Since when ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

Dies again, another minion from it. Wait, how's this bad again?

Pets are there to tank. they can't do that if thier dead. its aslo a waste of 10energy if its only going to be alive for a few seconds. There will only be another minon. If the necro is alive, in range and has energy. This is not allways the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

if the Grasps have made it past the pets/minions, A) Something's gone wrong, and B) Whirling Defense/Throw Dirt ftw

Sometimes things DO go wrong. I don't know about you but I don't have room on my skill bar for 2 extra skills.

Strange how you ignored the other part of my post.

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Old

Dec 27, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

#86

Made In Ascalon

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Guild: None

Profession: Rt/

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Admins Bane

Only newb casters get owned by melee.

Hurray for baseless generalizations.

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Dec 27, 2006, 05:20 AM // 05:20	#87
Criminally Sane Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: With my angel. Guild: Needs Moar [DESU] Profession: W/	I'm curious to what your B/P build is, Spike. You don't bring any Expertise skills, or even use (arguably) the best primary attribute in the game. You apparently sometimes use Healing Prayers. Oh, and do chill with the illiteracy comments. Coming from someone with your spelling abilities and grasp of the game, they don't mean much.

Old

Dec 27, 2006, 11:13 AM // 11:13

#88

JYX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Congratulations, you pointed out the only valid reason to put more than 6 points into estorage. Want a cookie or something?

Not all eles run eprod... anet released 2 more elite skills for eles in nightfall. (Another cookie if you can name them.)

KROFL J00 S0 C00TE /W COOKIE
J00 N1NJ0R!?!??!

Talk less crap. You won't have to smooth it out later.

Ether Prism is valid reason for 12 points in Energy Storage. Some Searing eles also put high points in energy storage...just because they don't have any other lines to invest in. Unconditional E management skills may be the only reason anyone invests in Energy Storage, but that's like saying healing is the only reason you'd want to invest in healing.

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Dec 27, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23	#89
JR Re:tired Join Date: Nov 2005 Profession: W/	This discussion has nothing to do with skills, the skills do not justify a primary attribute line. Any attribute line has good and bad skills, the important thing about primary attribute lines is the side effects they have. Strength is absolute trash, anyone who thinks otherwise needs to work the number.

Old

Dec 27, 2006, 11:27 AM // 11:27

#90

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: Belgium

Guild: [ROSE]

Profession: A/

Default

Some people think Critical Strikes does more criticals than weapon mastery.

Here's a little article I wrote for those who think so:

Quote:

16 critical strikes is really overkill, especially if you're running dagger mastery.

For every level of dagger mastery, you'll also gain 1 percent of critical hits. So above 13 crit strikes, it has no use investing points in crit strikes, because you would get more damage from a higher investment in dagger mastery, and you keep your crit hit percentage.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Dagger_Mastery

Let's take my example Yanssassin build. I use 15 DM and 14 critical strikes.

15 DM = 21% crit hit , +14% from crit strikes = 35

If we would simply switch the attributes around, we get the following equation:
14 DM = 19.6% crit hit, + 15% from crit strikes = 34.6

So, in general, for making a build that uses critical strikes:

Get at least 13 critical strikes. If you have left-over points, prefer putting them into your weapon mastery, unless you can get 2 more critical strike levels, and only 1 weapon mastery.

Critical strikes = 1% per level
Weapon Masterty = 1.3% per level

I hope anybody who took the time to read this actually understood it, if not, I'll make a YanGraph, explaining it more.

Bottomline: investing in the weapon mastery gives more crit hit percentage ( AND BONUS DAMAGE! don't forget! ) than investing in critical strikes.

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Dec 27, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38	#91
Metanoia Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Feb 2006	I demand a YanGraph.

Old

Dec 27, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

#92

JYX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

This discussion has nothing to do with skills, the skills do not justify a primary attribute line. Any attribute line has good and bad skills, the important thing about primary attribute lines is the side effects they have.

Strength is absolute trash, anyone who thinks otherwise needs to work the number.

How can you say that when for Eles, the most important energy management skills they have are linked to storage? Just think about this for a second. Your investment in a primary attribute line is the whole package. Putting only 4 points into energy storage on a flash/heal party spammer because the passive effect isn't useful is obviously bad.

I am also aware that the thread isn't made to address skills. I agree entirely with Alleji's calculations and most people know the passive effect from Storage is bad energy management. When you draw conclusions and give practical advice though, aside from the actual discussion, you need to be speaking about the whole. Advice like taking points out of energy storage to invest in...gale >.>

Last edited by JYX; Dec 27, 2006 at 11:44 AM // 11:44..

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Dec 27, 2006, 11:41 AM // 11:41	#93
Rusty Deth Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Woodland Realm Profession: Mo/N	lol so many "know it alls" in this thread. I consider any primary that has an energy effect or givesyou energy back are the best.

Old

Dec 27, 2006, 12:09 PM // 12:09

#94

JR

Re:tired

Join Date: Nov 2005

Profession: W/

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by JYX

How can you say that when for Eles, the most important energy management skills they have are linked to storage? Just think about this for a second. Your investment in a primary attribute line is the whole package. Putting only 4 points into energy storage on a flash/heal party spammer because the passive effect isn't useful is obviously bad.

Because then you aren't talking about how good or bad an attribute line is, you are talking about whether or not it has any crucial skills that carry it. Ether Prodigy makes a spec in Energy Storage desirable, but that is an illustration of how good Prodigy is - not the attribute line.

Expertise on the other hand is good regardless. You can run absolutely no Expertise skills, and still have very a high spec in it. Fast Casting is the same to a lesser extent.

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Old

Dec 27, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

#95

JYX

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Because then you aren't talking about how good or bad an attribute line is, you are talking about whether or not it has any crucial skills that carry it. Ether Prodigy makes a spec in Energy Storage desirable, but that is an illustration of how good Prodigy is - not the attribute line.

Semantics, we're basically agreed anyway. By comparison:
-extra energy bad
-ether prodigy good
-expertise good

The debate is fairly frivolous. Something else to consider is that these primary attributes aren't conditional to the same degree. Whereas a ranger will be using mostly/all skills, it possible for a ritualist to have few or no spirits. Likewise, what are the chances that you're going to get no critical hits, whereas it's pretty possible in a stalemate that nobody dies.

Obviously Anet tries to balance this by increasing the effect where the skills are more conditional. This creates a situation where creativity in builds is limited because the primary effect naturally benefits certain play styles (one reason for rit focus on spirits). Also you get situations where the primary attribute's power is greatly increased if you build specifically to meet it as often as possible (such as in soul reaping+spirit spam) this encourages gimmicks.

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Old

Dec 27, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

#96

Spike

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Location: In front of my PC

Guild: Kai

Profession: E/Mo

Exclamation

Quote:

Originally Posted by Criminally Sane

I'm curious to what your B/P build is, Spike. You don't bring any Expertise skills, or even use (arguably) the best primary attribute in the game. You apparently sometimes use Healing Prayers.

Oh, and do chill with the illiteracy comments. Coming from someone with your spelling abilities and grasp of the game, they don't mean much.

what you confused about. I use healing prayerrs to heal my self and others should the need arise. It has a shoter cast time and quicker recharge than troll unguent, and can be used on another person.

What has my grasp of the game and makeing the odd typo and/or spelling mistake got to do with another person inability to read english and my posts properly?

As for my build I use distracing shot, barrage, rebirth, healing breeze, charm aninal, comfort animal, fav winds. The 8th slot varies depending on what I or the team needs.

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Dec 27, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30	#97
Deleet Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Denmark Guild: Rule Thirty Four [prOn] Profession: Mo/	Healing Breeze is trash. - 1. Expertise 2. Fast Casting 3. Soul Reaping ... rest ... strength

Dec 27, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17	#98
Rusty Deth Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Woodland Realm Profession: Mo/N	I do pulling in tombs and bring this... Distracting, Savage, Concussion, Barrage, Troll, Throw Dirt, Lighting Reflexes ( Whirling Defense pissed me off) and finally rebirth. All with Marks at 16, Exp 13, and Wilderness at 6. When I bring a pet I trade out savage and lightening for the pet skills and leave my stats alone. If I have to bring a spirit I throw out Troll. I hardly ever use Troll and only bring it just in case in need a health buff. Healing Breeze is so bad monks hardly bring it anymore. Well i don't as a monk. I go full out boon/prot and have no points in healing.

Dec 27, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56	#99
Russell.Crowe Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2005	lol @ people ranking energy storage high, it's absolute crap, probably one of the worst (with spawning) and about strength, yes the bonus the attribute gives isn't that great but the skills under that attribute are very good expertise and divine favor are probably the two best, divine favor is up there simply because the skills under it are very good

Dec 28, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49	#100
Dragonious Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hot Springs, AR Guild: Dei Victorae [dV] Profession: R/W	Expertise is why I have a PvE ranger that is the only character I play.....I've been saying it forever even before the change to expertise. Try playing so many builds with a different attribute.

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